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Serge Professional Member


Joined: 04 Mar 2002 Posts: 1480 Location: Australia
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:46 am Post subject: |
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i think that this is a complex issue as on the one hand developers want to be rewarded for their hard work...on the other hand there is only a small market who would be interested in their dll and users will only buy the dll they need when they need it...that is certainly the case with me...i can't afford to buy every dll that comes out in support of the dll developers but if i need one and i have some spare money, then i will buy it
on the issue of cracks...it is a shame that it is always the majority who suffer because of the actions of a minority...and in the case of vds, i would hazard a guess and say a very small minority
pg...that you don't want to write new dlls is fair enough but don't withdraw what you have available as folks will buy it when they need it...and honest folks will buy it!!!...the same goes for all other dll developers
no one can make folks buy something to support its development but surely we can come up with some good ideas for stopping hackers accessing the dll's...see my other post
serge _________________
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vdsalchemist Admin Team

Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 1448 Location: Florida, USA
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| PGWARE wrote: | | For those of you that think I'm some sort of greedy capitalist pig that is far from the truth. |
Well if you are a "greedy capitalist pig" then I guess I am too Actually your much more giving than I would have ever been. Anyway I just wanted to say good luck PK. Your DLL's are cool and I wish you would leave them online even if they don't make much but that is very much up to you. I can see your point if you leave them online then you will get emails and messages asking for support. So you do what you have to do. _________________ Home of
Give VDS a new purpose!
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arcray Valued Contributor


Joined: 13 Jul 2001 Posts: 242 Location: Aude, France
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 9:14 am Post subject: |
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I use and have paid for many DLLs here, and I would be un-happy if support was withdrawn from them.
I would be happy to contribute to DLL developers that have been of great benefit to me and my work, even to the extent of a monthly subscription. However just me alone would not generate sufficient income for those developers. I can pay for specialist support where I need it, but most of my requirements have been resolved by this board.
I understand how depressing it can be, to work long hours on a project and not acheive a return. But withdrawing them stops any possible future income from being generated, and will speed up the demise of VDS itself...
That would be sad! And eventually put me out of work, unless an alternative came along.
If there were anything I could do to halt that demise, I'd like to try! _________________ Andrew GRAY
If you don't know I am looking for work, I won't get the job.
andrewrcgray.com |
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Rubes_sw Valued Contributor


Joined: 11 Jun 2001 Posts: 625 Location: Northern Ireland
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:30 am Post subject: |
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I can understand DLL/DUS authors frustration about kegens/cracks etc.
After my conversion.dsu costing $5 dollars was cracked, and the source code was sent to back to me by the cracker, i was really annoyned and frustrated and then i decided to release the source of the dsu because i could not be bothered. And I never even got 1 regitrastion for the DSU.
Also a great program i wrote called Control PC had over 5K downloads and i never got 1 registration.
I have pruchased quite a few vds dlls over the years and have also purchaseed copies of VDS3, VDS4 and VDS5.
It must be said however, no matter what protection you create for your programs, crackers useually find a way
Most software from multinational corporations can be cracked using cracks etc. It is sad, but;
Most serious people who want to really develop good apps, will pay for and register tools and software.
I would really hate to see VDS go down the tubes, but it may happen.
Nathan |
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jules Professional Member


Joined: 14 Sep 2001 Posts: 1043 Location: Cumbria, UK
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| mindpower wrote: |
As for the decompilers for VDS. There are decompilers for all computer languages I really don't see why VDS should be any different. It would be nice if this was not the case but it is the truth. |
I wanted to say something about this, especially as I had one private message asking whether anything could be done about the encryption of scripts in VDS executables to defeat the decompilers. What you say is absolutely true, and I think too much work has already been expended by CR on this encryption.
I think that changing the encryption again, even if CR was willing to do it, would be pointless, and will just cause potential runtime version conflicts for users. The encryption can never be made uncrackable, because it has to be decrypted by the runtime. The only way to make encryption really difficult would be to ask the user for a password, which obviously is impractical each time you run a program.
If DLL developers are concerned that people can use decompilers to extract license codes from other programs, why don't they use another method to license their products? Visual Basic add-ins don't require a license to be distributed with the application. They require a license to allow them to be used in the IDE, for development. I'm sure it should be possible to develop an alternative licensing scheme like this, which would make it much harder to obtain a license without paying for it.
I am not cryptography expert. I have never made a keygen that hasn't been cracked the day after I released it. I don't know how to. The example in the original VDS DLL example of using the second parameter of the EXTERNAL command for licensing was never meant to be more than an example showing how you could pass extra information to a DLL and use it. _________________ The Tech Pro
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jules Professional Member


Joined: 14 Sep 2001 Posts: 1043 Location: Cumbria, UK
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| Rubes_sw wrote: |
Also a great program i wrote called Control PC had over 5K downloads and i never got 1 registration.
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I think most shareware gets similar results. PK is lucky if he has a program that gets 600 registrations a month. My most popular program gets just over 20.
The fact is, there is just too much Windows software. There is also an enormous amount of freeware, which any shareware has to compete with. Even honest users register only a fraction of the stuff they download. I do so myself. It doesn't mean that they use cracks to activate the rest of it. They just uninstall it, because they decide they don't need it, or it isn't worth the money, or they found a bug, or they discovered a bit of freeware that did the same job for them. _________________ The Tech Pro
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FreezingFire Admin Team

Joined: 23 Jun 2002 Posts: 3508
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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PK, if things get better than they are right now, and VDS gets more
popular, and it would be feasible once again to develop dlls, would you
ever come back to developing your extensions? They do some of the
most amazing things I've ever seen happen in VDS, and I just hate to
see your hard work being thrown out the window.  _________________ FreezingFire
VDSWORLD.com
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Vic D'Elfant Past Contributor


Joined: 26 Jun 2002 Posts: 673 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with you FreezingFire. It's really sad that one of our top-dll developers quits...
Vic _________________ phpBB Development Team |
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PGWARE Web Host

Joined: 29 Dec 2001 Posts: 1567
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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>>>
| Quote: | | Julian said: I have never made a keygen that hasn't been cracked the day after I released it. |
I knew it! I knew it all along!! It was Julian who was making the keygen's and he just admitted it!!! (only kidding )
I haven't made a decision on keeping the dlls up or not. Mindpower hit on the exact problem with leaving the dll's up. I'll get emails asking for support of the dll. Even when vdsipp was freeware I received emails for support when it was noted that no support was provided. |
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FreezingFire Admin Team

Joined: 23 Jun 2002 Posts: 3508
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| PGWARE wrote: | >>>
| Quote: | | Julian said: I have never made a keygen that hasn't been cracked the day after I released it. |
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lol  _________________ FreezingFire
VDSWORLD.com
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jules Professional Member


Joined: 14 Sep 2001 Posts: 1043 Location: Cumbria, UK
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Well, the registration key generator for my shareware actually is called keygen...  _________________ The Tech Pro
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jules Professional Member


Joined: 14 Sep 2001 Posts: 1043 Location: Cumbria, UK
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| PGWARE wrote: |
I haven't made a decision on keeping the dlls up or not. Mindpower hit on the exact problem with leaving the dll's up. I'll get emails asking for support of the dll. Even when vdsipp was freeware I received emails for support when it was noted that no support was provided. |
Perhaps you would offer them to Emmanuel if you don't want to carry on with them. They are an asset to VDS in general, even if they don't make much money in themselves. In the past, Emmanuel always said to me that he would take any extension I wrote. I know some of you are doubting his commitment to VDS, but I can only go on what he has written to me, that he wants to keep VDS alive and even bring out a VDS 6 someday.
To the forum in general: I think it's time to stop this negative discussion, which if allowed to continue will only have the effect of making this talk of the demise of VDS become a self-fulfilling prophecy. _________________ The Tech Pro
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vdsalchemist Admin Team

Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 1448 Location: Florida, USA
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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Jules,
You are correct. Emmanuel is not going to stop working on VDS or seeling. He is committed to VDS that is why it takes so long for a new version to be released he does not want to release junk. Even the best development systems need help these days. I think we should not speak of the negatives but rather talk about what to do to resolve this. I really wish Emmanuel would release the SDK version 2 documentation for VDS. It would be nice there are many things I have ran into as I delve into my Gadget DLL deep that are not making sense to me and I think the new SDK could shed some light on these areas... _________________ Home of
Give VDS a new purpose!
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FreezingFire Admin Team

Joined: 23 Jun 2002 Posts: 3508
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| mindpower wrote: | | I think we should not speak of the negatives but rather talk about what to do to resolve this. |
I agree 100%  _________________ FreezingFire
VDSWORLD.com
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LOBO Valued Contributor


Joined: 14 Mar 2002 Posts: 241 Location: Wilmington, Delaware, USA
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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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To help with stopping the negativeness of this thread I have went back and removed my previous post. Hopefully our community will grow and things will get better. Remember you're never going to stop someone who wants to crack your program they will always find some way but please just think about the honest customers you do have.
-Mark |
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